Ep 150: The Revive Project: Navigating Your Unique Fertility Journey with Christina Honeysett
Fertility Forward Episode 150:
Each patient’s journey comes with a unique set of challenges – especially in the vast landscape of infertility treatments – and finding the right support is essential. Christina Honeysett, co-founder of The Revive Project at Well Collab, joins the podcast to share her personal journey through infertility treatments and surrogacy, which has fueled her dedication to supporting others facing similar challenges. Through Revive, she’s helping patients advocate for themselves while driving systemic change in healthcare. In our conversation, Christina delves into the power of trauma-informed care and community support when navigating fertility treatments, before unpacking Revive’s easy-to-use resources and supportive network of patients and practitioners. She also introduces Revive’s "Pause" approach, a simple, yet impactful five-step method for creating a more compassionate, patient-centered experience. Tune in for a conversation about empathy-driven healthcare and the importance of community in navigating your unique fertility journey!
Rena: Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara, and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Dara: Today we have on our podcast Christina Honeysett, and she is the co-founder of the Revive Project at Well Collab and serves as the VP of Communication at a global health nonprofit. Having faced numerous fertility treatments and surrogacy attempts, Christina's personal journey has fueled her dedication to supporting others facing similar challenges. She's also a volunteer for RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association, where she has served as New York State Captain. Christina's unique combination of personal experience and professional insights helps ensure that REVIVE’s resources are both empathetic and informative. Christina, thanks so much for being here today!
Christina: Yeah, thank you. I'm beaming. I love that we're having this conversation so much.
Rena: We are so happy that you're here and thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom and I am so excited to tell everyone about the blog post that you wrote. I think it's amazing that you, like so many of our guests, and you know, both Dara and myself, sort of the idea of - take lemons and turn it to lemonade based on your experience. I think that's amazing.
Christina: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, let's get into it.
Rena: Yeah. Well, so let's start. You sort of tell us your story.
Christina: Yeah, so Revive is a project I co-founded with Chryssa Tsakiris of Well Collab Acupuncture here in Westchester, I'm based in Westchester. And I think of it as a network of patients and practitioners coming together to provide resources, advice, support to help empower patients to advocate for themselves, to make informed decisions and feel less alone in what can often be - and you two know this - a very isolating experience. So in many ways, Revive came from my own personal experiences and insights, navigating infertility as a patient, but also my journey reconciling with traumas in healthcare settings from long before that even began. And so one of the founding principles in a way of Revive is the acknowledgement that each patient's journey is unique and comes with its own set of challenges, especially when we're talking about the landscape of infertility treatments, which we know can be very triggering for some. So the way a lot of patients cope with that, and the way I certainly coped with that myself as a patient, and and still a patient in this process, is to default to ways we've learned out there in the world in many respects, which is to be pleasing, to stay quiet. Perfect. I'm doing air quotes, but perfect. Whatever perfect means to you. And in the blog that you mentioned, I wrote that, I called it pleasing patient syndrome, but really it can manifest in many ways. And that comes at a great cost, not just the burden that it places on the patient, but it prevents us from getting the care we need because what that demands of us is really our silence. And so Revive stated in the name is about reviving that voice that can get so lost and to help patients navigate their healthcare journeys with more confidence and clarity because it can be such a confusing and wobbly process. And I know wherever I speak, because I've been at this now for nearly five years, four of those years with RMA and my patient journey is certainly unique in some ways starting with procedures that I had in the NICU, which saved my life, but also brought about some painful trade-offs, including fertility challenges. And so for me, that meant years growing up, moving from one specialist to another, dealing with a lot of uncertainty from a very early age. And given my history, I had this nagging feeling actually that I would somehow get involved in some sort of patient advocacy or healthcare related role. And it didn't really materialize until I came to RMA. But I was coming in with a lot of medical trauma as many patients do coming into this space and that made treatments and procedures, especially at the start, very difficult because I wasn't just dealing with processing the emotional and physical toll that the infertility was taking, but the added weight of a lot of that medical trauma from my past. And at the time, I was seeing Chryssa who was not only my acupuncturist, but a confidant in this whole process and she was helping me process a lot of what was coming up and because the way I ended up in this space is quite unique in some ways, I felt a lot of the times as now I know a lot of people do, but this feeling of like, this is a me issue. This doesn't happen to anyone else, but as someone who sees people in all sorts of healthcare journeys as Chryssa does day in and day out, she was helping me understand that yes, no two patient experiences are alike, but the things that I was coming up against, what I was experiencing, was in no way unique to me. I remember I had this disaster of an HSG appointment fairly early on with a radiologist - it was terrible. But I was so heartbroken and angry because I thought that by staying quiet I could somehow avoid what had happened. And that's kind of the unspoken rule for people pleasers, right? Like if I stay quiet, if I stay pleasing, I won't get hurt. But that didn't work. And if anything, I was continuing to stifle a voice that was very loudly telling me in that moment like, this is not right. And something shifted in me after this particular procedure and with a lot of help from family and friends, I ended up writing a letter to the hospital. And that act alone was one of the most empowering things I think I've ever done. And I still actually had the voicemail that Chryssa left me after I sent it because it was such a big moment because it was important for me, but it also felt like in a way I was standing up for other patients who may have had similar experiences and long story long, that became the origin story of Revive because I shared that I had written the letter with a few close friends and family members, and then, you know, I had a friend ask if they could have a copy of it because they had a similar experience, and Chryssa would have a client whose cousin also had a similar experience. And so I ended up turning the letter into a template, so like a fill in the blank, and it lived in Google Docs and we would pass it around and thus began a very ground up network of support and resource sharing. And I work in communication, as you both know, and have so for years and writing is how I process. So as I got deeper into my infertility journey, I would write things down and over time I had a lot of like source material from all sides of the infertility experience. And so the resources, like the Waiting Room Workbook and the Self-Advocacy Scripts are all outcomes of my journey, but they also incorporate input from practitioners like Chryssa and psychologists. We have Dr. Steiner here in Westchester who has weighed in. And of course, Dr. Klein, who is my doctor here at RMA, brought strategies to the table as well.
Rena: I love that. And I particularly, you know, what resonated on a personal level, and you know, so much of my work with clients is the idea about people pleasing and how when we're people pleasers, we often avoid and we don't speak up. But that ends up being a negative for all parties involved. You know, it's negative for us because then we're not sharing our feelings and then we can end up building a resentment. And then it's not fair to the other person because we're assuming that they don't want us to speak up. And then we may start having feelings of resentment, you know, my physician did this, my physician did that. When, if we had just spoken up and said, Hey, this is really bothering me, or here's a question, you know, the whole thing could have just been a five minute conversation and both parties could communicate and be happy. So I love that you sort of brought that up. I think as people pleasers, we often feel like it's gonna benefit the other person if we don't speak up, but I think both people lose.
Dara: So true.
Christina: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Dara: Yeah. And, and it's so interesting how in your story and in your experience, how now you can help other people who may be going through something somewhat similar. It's interesting. I think it's very common that we have these instincts, but we don't always act upon that. So we, as you mentioned, you did, you know, when you had your HSG, something didn't feel right, but you didn't speak up. And I think that's a great point to, to bring up to people that it's important to listen to that inner voice.
Christina: It's crazy how much your body tells you and how your body just knows. I don't know if either of you have had a situation like that. I've had many in this process. I'm happy to get into some of that. But it's true, like your body has a lot of information. And for the Waiting Room Workbook for instance, a lot of the exercises that we have in there are so much about tapping into that body knowledge because the resources, like the Script for instance, we have a Self-Advocacy Script. A lot of people find it helpful. I found it helpful myself to have kind of pre-written statements or questions that you could ask your doctor. Sometimes that's helpful to feel like you have that armed and ready going into an appointment, but I think before you can start communicating out externally about what it is that you need, we also need to be first communing within of what's happening in the body. And again, those exercises that we have there, which are backed by research in some ways of like, these are tried and true methods for helping reduce anxiety in those moments. And we call it the Waiting Room Workbook because the idea is that you can bring these to the waiting room while you're waiting to meet with the doctor you haven't met with before or before you go have that procedure, before you walk into the OR. And so the idea is embedding these practices actually into, into the experience as a patient rather than that be separate. Because I do think that there's this notion that you go and you get these procedures done and then you're on your way. Like go off, find a therapist, work that out separately. And for many people that's cost prohibitive. I mean, if you're doing IVF treatment, that's already very costly. And so relying on some outside system can be very difficult because not everybody has the resource to do so. Some insurance policies we know do cover mental health, but not all do. So the goal with Revive in many ways is to try to embed these practices actually into day-to-Day, so that you feel equipped, whether it's a monitoring appointment or an exam, that you have some tools to help guide you through that.
Rena: I love that. I mean, I know so many people dread the waiting room, right? It's, it's either, the idea of what if I see somebody I know and I don't want them to know that I'm going through treatment or I hate sitting there and looking around, and maybe it's triggering for you because other people are there with their partners and, and you're not, you know, and that brings stuff. Maybe you feel alone or just sort of feeling like, how come all these other people are going through this too? You know? I think that's a really weird feeling because this process is so personal and it can be so, I mean, it's so sacred, right? You know, trying to family build or preserve fertility. And I think it lends itself to a really odd feeling to go and just see that you're one of many. I think that feels super uncomfortable. So I love the idea. I think there should be a movement, there should be some hashtag going on about like, change the feel of the waiting room! You know, like instead of avoiding eye contact and looking down, like why don't we start connecting with people, you know, I'm
Christina: That could be the hashtag embrace the suckiness
Rena: That's a long one. But we'll work on it. We'll, we'll have to workshop that, but, but I love that. You know, I love that you created something to help do that. You know, it's sort of this elephant in the room that people just talked about it. Everyone would be, I think, on the same page.
Christina: And again, I know where I speak, I am in that waiting room, and I know what it feels like. And you know, there's something to be said about using that time to scroll through your phone and disassociate in some ways, like that's helpful. Like sometimes we need distractions, but sometimes we need something else. And I think that using whatever tools we can to help patients process and get into, one of the things that was really important to us in developing the workbook and other materials is to try to normalize and embed, again, the advocacy piece, into the mindfulness techniques as well. And I'll tell you a story, we had put together, one of the exercises in the workbook is, it's called “Fears, Hopes, and Boundaries.” And so the idea is that as you're sitting in that waiting room or in the car before going into the appointment, maybe it's the first time you're meeting with your doctor, you're new to this experience, to be able to quickly jot down, even if it's not full sentences, just like, what am I afraid of in this moment? What are my fears? What do I hope? What do I hope for out of this? What's my goal out of all of this? Even if it's just, what's my goal for today? And then we have boundaries. And so the boundaries, again, are meant to help a patient determine and then be able to externalize to their doctor or their care team, like, Hey, I have this history, or I'm really fearful of this particular exam, or what have you, and here's a boundary I wanna set. Or at least the boundary could be like, I wanna learn more about what this procedure is before I go ahead. And Chryssa and I were going through, we were going through that page and she, you know, she was like, I, I love this exercise, but I have to tell you, like, I don't, I don't know if a lot of patients would be able to identify what boundaries are in this setting. And that really struck me because yeah, five years ago, me coming into this process probably couldn't do that either. And I think it's because we're so used to in these particular settings to be in a reactive mode. Like we're reacting to the information that's coming to us, and we're used to feeling like we, again, should be kind of passive recipients of, of what's happening and not taking an active role necessarily in our care. So again, that struck me because it made me realize like, we have to get to such a foundational level with our patients and thinking about how do we not only provide exercises, but also get to like the idea that you have a right to have a boundary in the first place. So yes, it's good to identify what those boundaries might be, but for a lot of people it's like speaking a foreign language. It certainly was for me. So I mention that because again, that was sort of this turning point when we, we were developing the materials to think through, like, how do we get to the root of the root of this? And we, it's one of my favorite exercises, and I think it's one that people really resonate with. So the boundaries could be, again, like, I wanna place the sonogram wand myself, or I wanna be fully clothed before a doctor tells me what the next steps are. These are very simple, but when we're talking about trauma, they can have a really big impact.
Rena: Absolutely. You know, when you're talking, I sort of was thinking a lot, you know, sometimes, you know, it's not the easy times in life that that cause us to create change, you know, it's, it's the challenges. And I do think when you're in this, it's really hard to see the other side, right? Like, you're just in it, it feels like you're going through mud. It feels really tough. But I do think, I mean, these skills you're talking about, right? We're talking about, you know, working on being a people pleaser, establishing boundaries. These are such important life skills that so many people don't get to work on. And so I would also say, you know, what a reframe to view this as, okay, I'm going through this challenge and this is a gift, it's an opportunity. That idea of like, what is this teaching me? Right? It's challenging me to become better at boundary setting, to become better at speaking up for myself, you know? And those skills are only going to serve to really help you in all areas of life. And so this challenge, you know, I think does give the opportunity for people to be pushed to their limits. You know, again, we don't, we didn't ask for it, we don't love it while we're in it. But the other side of it, you know, gaining these skills, gaining these tools are things that can help in all areas of life.
Christina: Oh, absolutely. It's hard to try to put these in buckets of like, oh, that's happening in my infertility setting and this is happening at work and this is happening in my family life. And that's the other way too, right? It all blends. So people are coming in too to their appointments with all this context, like they all this, all the experiences that they have in these other areas of life. But that's so true, Rena. Like we have to, there's an opportunity to think of this as a way through the muck of what this experience can feel like sometimes to look at it as a way to find our voice and to strengthen our voice. that's what Revive is helping patients do, hopefully, is to help access that and then externalize it.
Rena: I love that. You know, it always makes me think of the man in the arena quote, which I think Brene Brown, if anyone listening is a follower of Brene Brown. I love her. And she really kind of mainstreamed that. I believe it's a Teddy Roosevelt quote, but it's the idea that, you know, the people on the sidelines, you know, if you're at a fight, if you're on the sidelines, like, what are you doing? You know, you gotta get in the arena, you gotta get dirty, you gotta get beaten up, you gotta get bloody, because that's where real change occurs, and that's where real victory happens. And I think that this experience, it pushes you in the arena. It pushes you, like in there in the center. You can't sit on the sidelines, you gotta get down and dirty. But the other side of that really is beautiful.
Christina: Yeah, it can be. It definitely can be. And I think a lot of us often find ourselves in situations where we wanna take the power back, but maybe feel overwhelmed and, and don't really know where to start. And to that point you made about being in the arena, like there's a lot of bad not so great advice out there from people who may not have been through this experience. And, you know, friends and family do their best to support. But it's, I hope what Revive offers too is some guidance, some support from a fellow patient, somebody who's in there. And that's also what I've gained so much is through the network of other patients that I've come across, is that's what has kept me afloat in so many ways.
Rena: I was gonna say, I think that's a great point. So it's like, okay, well where does that leave someone? Right? Like, you've created this amazing workbook, you've created this amazing resource, but that's not gonna talk back to someone. And I think the, the next step is the importance of community, the importance of a support system. You know, there's so many support groups out there and whether your supports look like a support group, a therapist, but building out, because you can't do this alone. And I think, so the workbook is this amazing resource, but then find someone you can workshop that with, find people to, to talk about this with. And you know, we always link stuff in, in the show notes here, but I can, you know, there are amazing support groups out there, amazing practitioners, and to just build your village, because going through this alone is not, not good.
Christina: No, not at all. And I have to say, I was pretty late to the game with support groups. I think I had this mentality of like, I can do this on my own, and what's a support group? I don't, I don't know if that's for me. And then I joined one and I was like, why didn't I do this sooner? Because it is, there's something really special about hearing from other people. Even if they have a completely different experience, they're in that arena with you. And that's really important. And that's why I mentioned too, like when I wrote that letter, I did not write that letter on my own. Right. That would've been such a great hero story of, you know, I had this experience and then I sat down on my own and I wrote that letter. I didn't, I had friends and family, like write it in part for me with my input, you know? And then I recognized how helpful that was. And so then turning that into a template was this sort of like passing it forward of I'm gonna write the bulk of it now based on what I found helpful. And you just plug in what you need to plug in and send it off if you do need to send, I mean, that's just one example, but that's the idea. And the idea of the script is like, how can we make it as easy as possible for people?
Dara: I'm curious, where did you get your support group? How did you find your support? Was it something that was tricky to find?
Christina: It wasn't. I mean, I, so I found my support group through RESOLVE, and I can talk more about that. So RESOLVE is a nonprofit patient advocacy organization. And they not only host an annual federal advocacy day in partnership with the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, but they also have, I think it's nearly at least one support group in every state at this point. And they're virtual and they're peer led in many ways. But that's a great place to start. I mean, you can also Google in-person support groups that may be closer to you, if that's something that you're looking for. We couldn't do it that during the pandemic, but now we can. But that's, I think going to resolve.org. They have a tab there just for support groups, and you plug in your location. They have different topics. They have support groups, not just for those going through infertility treatments, but for partners as well. They're pretty niche, so it's definitely worth starting there for sure.
Rena: RESOLVE is fantastic. I love RESOLVE. They're a great resource.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah. They're wonderful.
Dara: It's amazing what you've created, and I can only imagine how helpful it's gonna be for, for people who are starting their journey, people who are in their journey. And where do you feel like your next steps in this journey are gonna be for you? I, I feel like there's so much more you could do with this, but do you have any ideas of, of how you wanna continue?
Christina: Yeah, I mean, it does feel like boiling the ocean, like we're trying to do so much. And we started in the infertility space because of the proximity to my experience right now. But again, what I think is partly unique about Revive is that we are approaching it from both the patient and the practitioner side. So yes, self-advocacy is so crucial for amplifying our voices as patients and making sure that we are, are heard and respected, but we can't over index on that too much because it absolutely needs to be paired with real systemic change and change on the practitioner side. Like we can use our voices all we want, but we, we need to be met halfway and, and so right now we're working on resources for practitioners to help educate and inform. And one of the resources we're working on now that Dr. Klein is actually helping weigh in on is what's called PAUSE. And it's a five step approach to enhance the patient care experience by integrating, excuse me, trauma-informed practices into day-to-day care. So one of the best working definitions of trauma that I've come across recently was trauma is anything that is too fast, too much, too soon for nervous systems to handle. And so PAUSE, the PAUSE approach for practitioners was developed to help like slow things down to pause. And we spoke about those busy monitoring mornings that I think many of us…and I've had plenty. So you know, that things can move really quickly and for some patients that's perfectly fine. Like they wanna get in there, they wanna get out and go on with their day. And for others, the speed at which things are happening can be a very triggering experience. Yeah. And that's just a small example of the variability patient to patient. And what PAUSE is aiming to do is to get ahead of that again by integrating some of the trauma-informed strategies into the overall care experience. And in a way, it's a win, it's a win-win because any doctor I'd say worth their salt wants you to be partnered with them in this. And two, it's a, you know, positive patient experience is a net win for any practice. And so we're aiming to have that ready probably by end of the year. And then, as I mentioned too, right now, our materials are very oriented to the infertility space and, and the OBGYN setting as well. But they can be applied to so many other medical contexts and patient experiences. And that's what we envision really as a big next step for Revive, is to bring in experts and practitioners from other medical specialties and areas and help us develop resources and guides so that we have a more comprehensive set of patient experiences that are represented. I mean, the idea of doing a Revive for kids, that to me is so full circle. Right? So that's definitely a goal in the coming, coming months, hopefully.
Rena: I love that's incredible. Really amazing work.
Christina: Yeah. Thank you.
Dara: It's remarkable what you've created, and I love that you're now looking towards content for practitioners 'cause it's true, it's, it's one thing when a patient is coming in and feeling a certain way, but also educating and supporting the practitioners to make sure that they're doing everything they can to give their patients the best experience possible. And, and it's so true that we all have our own unique experiences and meeting our patients where they're at and having that conversation and, and also being aware of, you know, if you're meeting with someone who seems like they could be a people pleaser, also knowing the right prompts and things to say to really help them feel comfortable to open up.
Christina: It's so important. And I'm so glad you stated about each patient having such different experiences because that's so important. I mean, we're providing roadmaps and guides and exercises, but in no way are we trying to be prescriptive. Like there is no one size fits all to providing care for a patient. And, and that's true on the practitioner side as well. Like each patient, like each human has a whole series of, again, context and experiences coming into, into this experience. And we wanna be able to honor all of them. What I find really inspiring and motivating in some ways with the practitioner side of things is that a lot of the solutions or a lot of the practices that we're trying to employ are really simple. Like they're not complicated. They're not resource heavy. It's often like making sure that you're asking, you know, before you begin a conversation around somebody's history, that there's a moment for a pause or there's a moment of asking, have you had sexual trauma in your past? Whatever might be to help make that experience more tolerable for the patient. So yes, there's like big stuff we can be doing. There's big policy stuff we can be pushing for. But again, I feel, I feel really motivated by the idea that some of these are quite simple and would make a huge difference for patients.
Rena: I love that. I mean, the patient community is so lucky to have you. And I love that Dr. Klein's on board, obviously. He's fantastic. What an amazing project.
Christina: Yeah. And I have to say, I mean, a lot of what inspired, what inspired Revive is the, through the different approaches that he employed for me in, in my patient journey. I mean, if I came to RMA with a lot of baggage, and I, I don't love the connotation of that, but let's keep it for the analogy. Like Dr. Klein met that with real drive to like, let me help carry some of this for you. Let's unpack it together. And it's rare to find, I think it's rare to find a doctor that inspires a transformation like that in your relationship to medicine. And he has, and that's saying a lot. And again, a lot of the strategies for Revive are based on my experience working with him and the willingness he's had to try different approaches so I could feel more comfortable in the process. And we didn't talk about that in the context of, oh, these are trauma-informed processes, but, or practices, but that's ultimately what he's employed. And there's a sense that yes, they're science, they're stats, they're the odds, but ultimately this is a very emotional human process and for me it was important to have a doctor that created space for all of that, and also space for me to have a voice. So I can't say enough great things about him and his team's approach. And he and Martha and Jenna and Nicole, who I met through the third party team, they've all, they've really kept me afloat and still do during some really difficult times. So I'm eternally grateful.
Dara: It takes a village. It really does.
Christina: It sure does.
Rena: Definitely does. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on and share about your incredible work. I'm so happy for our listeners to know about you and then hopefully reap the benefits of the workbook and everything. I think what you've created is, is really amazing and we're so excited to see what you do next.
Christina: Thank you. Yes. Thanks so much for having me again. Right now, anyone can access the materials on well collab.com/revive. Happily they no longer live as Google Docs. So that's, that's a benefit. And on Instagram too, @revive.wellcollab and our goal is to kick off in-person sessions, which we’re really excited about in the fall here in Westchester, though we may do them virtually depending on where folks are based. So if you're interested in joining, you can DM us or we can include the email in the show notes as well.
Dara: Is this a support group?
Christina: So we're calling it a listening in some ways it's a support group, right. But it's a listening session. And really we wanna bring patients together. We're trying to do them in small groups as best as we can. And the idea is to just have a discussion, like, free flowing discussion of different patient experiences. And again, so there's that support and community aspect of it, but there's also the, you know, the idea that this helps us inform future resources or helps us tailor some of the resources we've developed already. And so I think we're probably going to do it here in Westchester, but we'd love to bring in a virtual component as well, so anybody can join from anywhere.
Rena: Amazing. Well, so how we like to wrap our podcast is to say something of gratitude. So something we are grateful for
Dara: Christina?
Christina: You would think having listened to your podcast now like a million times over, I would've remembered to think of this. There's a lot of be grateful for. Right? So I'm grateful for the people who have supported me in this. I genuinely, genuinely do not know where I'd be without this network helping us in different ways, at different times. And that very much includes the people in our orbits who have very vulnerably and bravely shared some of their experiences with me and with Chryssa. Personally, it's made me feel less alone, but they're also helping shape resources for other people out there. And so there's a lot of giving back and giving forward, and I'm grateful to you both for having me on. It's been awesome.
Dara: How beautiful. You're so happy you're here. Rena, what about you today?
Rena: I would say I am grateful for just grounding and my breath and the ability to feel solid and just sound mind, sound body, clear thoughts and just be grounded no matter what's going on to always just come back to breathing. So I'm grateful for that. What about you?
Dara: I love that. Super simple, but super important. Remember to breathe. After listening to Christina, and the importance of having a, a good network. I was thinking about the people that I surround myself with, my friends, my colleagues, my family, the people that I come across day to day, my doormen, and just how grateful I am that I really do feel like I have a community and how each person in my life, whether they're people in my day-to-day life, or people who I smile on like with on the, in the subway, or who I come into contact only once. How it all collectively. I, I do feel like everyone's there to help each other grow and learn. You know, even the people that aren't so great in my life, I do believe that everyone serves a purpose for our own growth and development. So I have immense gratitude for that.
Christina: That's so great. Yeah. I feel like there's this feeling that we have to just like charge ahead on our own, but that's not true. There are a lot of people that want to support us, but sometimes we have to seek it. And that's okay.
Rena: Yeah.
Dara: Amen to that.
Rena: A-woman to that.
Dara: A-woman to that. Yes. Thanks so much again.
Christina: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you both.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember: practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember - you are not alone. Find us on Instagram @fertility_forward and if you're looking for more support, visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.